League Office => Captain's Quarters => Topic started by: Kyle on October 22, 2017, 02:56:17 PM
Title: Realignment?
Post by: Kyle on October 22, 2017, 02:56:17 PM
Guys, with a little help from David and a "go ahead" from the CO to post this for discussion, what do you all think about realigning the divisions (5 teams each now) to simulate our real life locations? Our ownership group is very solid these days (less GMs leaving year-to-year), and it's an idea I've wondered about for quite a few years.
Here's how it might look:
Sparrow League
East Ankeny ACLs (MD) Barbuda/Antigua Bulldogs (LA) Brooklyn Kraken (NY) Data City Cache Hogs (NJ) Roxbury Robots (MA)
Central Ann Arbor Landlubbers (MI) Chicago Rum Runners (Chicago) Motor City Madmen (Detroit) Scurvy Dogs (SD) Windy City Rattlers (Chicago)
Roberts League
Northwest Grants Pass Brewers (OR) North Natomas Nomads (Northern California) River City Cutthroats (WA) Seattle Rainiers (WA) Walla Walla Sweets (WA)
Southwest Arizona Asterisks (AZ) AZ Koi (AZ) Bako Bums (Southern California) Bronxville Bombers (AZ) Orange City Devils (Southern California)
Since the CO has been trying to think of ways for better participation among GMs, this *could* encourage Division rivals to get together every now and then.
Not a hill I'm gonna die on. We could just keep the divisions the way they are are add one expansion team to each, keeping it simple. But let's discuss it and see what opinions are out there.
Title: Re: Realignment?
Post by: Kyle on October 22, 2017, 02:57:23 PM
Picture of realignment attached.
Title: Re: Realignment?
Post by: thebuland on October 22, 2017, 07:23:49 PM
Intriguing stuff Kyle. The divisions seemed well mixed with new, old, contending and, rebuilding. Plus any excuse to head to the brewery seems like a good idea to me.
Title: Re: Realignment?
Post by: Rum Runners on October 22, 2017, 07:39:08 PM
Actually, I'm not located in Chicago despite team name. I'm in Columbia, MO. Central division still fits.
My only real comment about this would be to look at the current competitive level of each team. More...Quick EditQuote
Title: Re: Realignment?
Post by: Rum Runners on October 23, 2017, 02:43:26 PM
Actually, I'm not located in Chicago despite team name. I'm in Columbia, MO. Central division still fits.
My only real comment about this would be to look at the current competitive level of each team. More...Quick EditQuote
So this feels like over analysis and it probably is. Will we have the re-alignment topic solved prior to the expansion roster protection deadline?
Title: Re: Realignment?
Post by: Scurvy Dogs on October 23, 2017, 03:18:47 PM
Is anyone against realignment? I’ll miss my rivalry against Kyle, but otherwise I don’t see any negatives to it. And I look forward to building new rivalries anyway. The Asterisks are too easy :)
Title: Re: Realignment?
Post by: Kyle on October 23, 2017, 08:06:49 PM
Is anyone against realignment? I’ll miss my rivalry against Kyle, but otherwise I don’t see any negatives to it. And I look forward to building new rivalries anyway. The Asterisks are too easy :)
Shots fired! And as it appears, at least for 2017, you are correct, sir. Congrats on moving onto Round 2. Wish my boys would have put up a better fight in Round 1 so we could do H2H! Maybe Aoki would have worked his magic again... :)
Title: Re: Realignment?
Post by: Scurvy Dogs on October 23, 2017, 09:35:46 PM
Ugh, don't remind me...
Title: Re: Realignment?
Post by: David Johnson on October 24, 2017, 09:37:16 AM
Actually, I'm not located in Chicago despite team name. I'm in Columbia, MO. Central division still fits.
My only real comment about this would be to look at the current competitive level of each team. More...Quick EditQuote
So this feels like over analysis and it probably is. Will we have the re-alignment topic solved prior to the expansion roster protection deadline?
Brent, so far all we've heard are positive (or at worst neutral) comments about realignment. To the extent that we don't get overwhelmingly negative feedback, I don't see why we wouldn't be able to implement this by November 7. Is that time-frame what you were looking for?
Title: Re: Realignment?
Post by: Rum Runners on October 24, 2017, 12:21:32 PM
David,
That will work for me, sounds like it's a done deal.
Title: Re: Realignment?
Post by: thebuland on October 24, 2017, 05:07:45 PM
At Kyle's prompting, and because I just can't listen to anymore analysis of the World Series, here's my take. I like it a lot. I like the natural rivalries.
With all these big changes, it may be time to say goodbye to the old Sparrow and Roberts Leagues. Since we are adding a bunch of SCRUBS folks maybe we could have a league name that reflects their inclusion. I don't have any specific ideas as it's been a few years since I was part of SCRUBS, but I think something that referenced their league would be a nice welcome.
Thoughts.
Title: Re: Realignment?
Post by: bshirt7 on October 24, 2017, 05:41:54 PM
Love the realignment idea!
Title: Re: Realignment?
Post by: bcbarnes on October 24, 2017, 06:00:02 PM
I'm good with it. That being said part of me thinks we should have a 2 team division of the Scurvy Dogs and Bulldogs as the Travelers
Title: Re: Realignment?
Post by: DataDriven05 on October 24, 2017, 06:04:43 PM
I am all for mixing it up.
Title: Re: Realignment?
Post by: Rum Runners on October 24, 2017, 06:57:59 PM
The realignment is fine by me. I think we can work on and discuss name changes along the way as that won't have an impact on the game play.
Title: Re: Realignment?
Post by: David Johnson on October 24, 2017, 07:19:50 PM
I'm good with it. That being said part of me thinks we should have a 2 team division of the Scurvy Dogs and Bulldogs as the Travelers
I wouldn’t want to be in a 2 team division with Rod!
Title: Re: Realignment?
Post by: scubadan on October 24, 2017, 08:04:07 PM
I'm not opposed to realignment but I do have two comments on this specific proposal. First, the Brooklyn Kraken are headquartered in Michigan (What, you've never heard of Brooklyn, Michigan? You're obviously not a NASCAR fan). Second, I think it is somewhat important in the near term to have an expansion team in each division. Two expansion teams in the same division could impact wild card races for 2-3 years.
Title: Re: Realignment?
Post by: Scurvy Dogs on October 24, 2017, 08:12:58 PM
What about this? No one says we have to be married to any preset divisional structure.
East Coast (Bias): Ankeny ACLs (MD) Data City Cache Hogs (NJ) Roxbury Robots (MA)
Great Lakes: Ann Arbor Landlubbers (MI) Brooklyn Kraken (MI) Motor City Madmen (Detroit) Windy City Rattlers (Chicago)
Travelers: Barbuda Bulldogs (LA) Chicago Rum Runners (MO) Scurvy Dogs (SD)
3 divisions with only 1 wild card for the postseason. Leaving the Northwest and Southwest alone (2 divisions, 2 wild cards). I tried coming up with a geographical reference for SD, MO, and LA but I got nothing...
The downside of course is the Great Lakes has 4 teams while the other 2 divisions in the Sparrow have 3. So it would be a little harder for them to achieve a divisional championship (side note, that division would also have 3 of the existing divisional champs in it. Gulp) But man, that wild card would be ruthless with only one of them out there...
Title: Re: Realignment?
Post by: David Johnson on October 24, 2017, 08:41:49 PM
I'm not opposed to realignment but I do have two comments on this specific proposal. First, the Brooklyn Kraken are headquartered in Michigan (What, you've never heard of Brooklyn, Michigan? You're obviously not a NASCAR fan). Second, I think it is somewhat important in the near term to have an expansion team in each division. Two expansion teams in the same division could impact wild card races for 2-3 years.
Dan, you can blame me for that. I just made an assumption when I put that together off memory. One other mistake I may have made is in the location of the Orange County Devils. Shane has lived mostly in DC, but a little bit in LA. With that additional mistake, we may be able to move things around a little bit so that the divisions look like this:
Sparrow League
East Ankeny ACLs (MD) Barbuda/Antigua Bulldogs (LA) Brooklyn Kraken (MI) Data City Cache Hogs (NJ) Roxbury Robots (MA) Orange City Devils (DC)
Central Ann Arbor Landlubbers (MI) Brooklyn Kraken (MI) Chicago Rum Runners (MO) Motor City Madmen (MI) Scurvy Dogs (SD) Windy City Rattlers (IL)
Roberts League
Northwest Grants Pass Brewers (OR) North Natomas Nomads (Northern California) River City Cutthroats (WA) Scurvy Dogs (SD) Seattle Rainiers (WA) Walla Walla Sweets (WA)
Southwest Arizona Asterisks (AZ) AZ Koi (AZ) Bako Bums (Southern California) Bronxville Bombers (AZ) North Natomas Nomads (Northern California) Orange City Devils (DC)
I don't know how you address the expansion team issue. Both of those Pac NW teams are about as Pac and NW as you can get.
Title: Re: Realignment?
Post by: dgonser on October 24, 2017, 08:45:42 PM
What this thread has shown me is that I need to get bios back on team pages!!!! And we all need to get together in some central location.
Title: Re: Realignment?
Post by: Kyle on October 24, 2017, 09:00:35 PM
I'm not opposed to realignment but I do have two comments on this specific proposal. First, the Brooklyn Kraken are headquartered in Michigan (What, you've never heard of Brooklyn, Michigan? You're obviously not a NASCAR fan). Second, I think it is somewhat important in the near term to have an expansion team in each division. Two expansion teams in the same division could impact wild card races for 2-3 years.
Dan, you can blame me for that. I just made an assumption when I put that together off memory. One other mistake I may have made is in the location of the Orange County Devils. Shane has lived mostly in DC, but a little bit in LA. With that additional mistake, we may be able to move things around a little bit so that the divisions look like this:
Sparrow League
East Ankeny ACLs (MD) Barbuda/Antigua Bulldogs (LA) Brooklyn Kraken (MI) Data City Cache Hogs (NJ) Roxbury Robots (MA) Orange City Devils (DC)
Central Ann Arbor Landlubbers (MI) Brooklyn Kraken (MI) Chicago Rum Runners (MO) Motor City Madmen (MI) Scurvy Dogs (SD) Windy City Rattlers (IL)
Roberts League
Northwest Grants Pass Brewers (OR) North Natomas Nomads (Northern California) River City Cutthroats (WA) Scurvy Dogs (SD) Seattle Rainiers (WA) Walla Walla Sweets (WA)
Southwest Arizona Asterisks (AZ) AZ Koi (AZ) Bako Bums (Southern California) Bronxville Bombers (AZ) North Natomas Nomads (Northern California) Orange City Devils (DC)
I don't know how you address the expansion team issue. Both of those Pac NW teams are about as Pac and NW as you can get.
I think the issue with the 2 expansion teams is the biggest of the "small" issues. In other words, probably not a big deal that in the first season of realignment, the Northwest Division will be a battle between three 2017 playoff teams (Cutty's, Dogs, Sweets).
I like your tweaks, David. I say go to print.
Title: Re: Realignment?
Post by: Kyle on October 24, 2017, 09:02:02 PM
Except I hate the fact I'm in the same division as Matt AND Brendt. I mean, seriously, how am I supposed to maintain friendships with these guys when I keep landing on top year after year?
Title: Re: Realignment?
Post by: thebuland on October 24, 2017, 09:52:48 PM
Oh Kyle, I think that Arizona sun has finally cooked your brain. (http://irinaspage.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/fried-brains.jpg)
Title: Re: Realignment?
Post by: David Johnson on October 24, 2017, 10:04:58 PM
Except I hate the fact I'm in the same division as Matt AND Brendt. I mean, seriously, how am I supposed to maintain friendships with these guys when I keep landing on top year after year?
It saddens me that I'm not included in that list. Shows how good the teams I field usually are.
Title: Re: Realignment?
Post by: scubadan on October 25, 2017, 04:43:53 AM
I agree that the geography matter is the smaller issue. I really don't have to be in the Central Division because I'm in Michigan.
Title: Re: Realignment?
Post by: ocd on October 25, 2017, 07:48:16 AM
Dave's tweaks make sense. I was gonna propose simply swapping the Barbuda/Antigua Bulldogs & the Orange County Devils (LA the state is more south than east in the important ways ^_^, imo), but he adjusts some of the other geographic quirks which I hadn't noticed. I'm in DC, despite "playing" at the Big A, or whatever it's called now.
As a Bay Area college grad, I think Northern CA in the southwest feels funny (Sacto is even more separate!) but I bet folks from Humboldt State would agree. Plus, I think all of us remember when the current WS would've been an original NL West divisional matchup!
Title: Re: Realignment?
Post by: Kyle on October 25, 2017, 08:37:43 AM
Except I hate the fact I'm in the same division as Matt AND Brendt. I mean, seriously, how am I supposed to maintain friendships with these guys when I keep landing on top year after year?
It saddens me that I'm not included in that list. Shows how good the teams I field usually are.
I agree that the geography matter is the smaller issue. I really don't have to be in the Central Division because I'm in Michigan.
That, or our friendship is so solid already that I'm not even worried? :)
Title: Re: Realignment?
Post by: Kyle on October 25, 2017, 08:42:37 AM
Hey CO, has everybody responded YES to the roll call? I assume they have. But there's one concern I'm sure we all have that no one has voiced as of yet: When somebody has to quit and is replaced. It's probably cool to just plug that new ownership in no matter where they reside, but alignment in this fashion may have to happen every 4-5 years if we want to keep it this way.
Title: Re: Realignment?
Post by: Kyle on October 25, 2017, 08:43:41 AM
As to the Nomads being in the Southwest, the answer is simple. Matt just needs to move.
Title: Re: Realignment?
Post by: Kyle on October 25, 2017, 09:01:44 AM
At Kyle's prompting, and because I just can't listen to anymore analysis of the World Series, here's my take. I like it a lot. I like the natural rivalries.
With all these big changes, it may be time to say goodbye to the old Sparrow and Roberts Leagues. Since we are adding a bunch of SCRUBS folks maybe we could have a league name that reflects their inclusion. I don't have any specific ideas as it's been a few years since I was part of SCRUBS, but I think something that referenced their league would be a nice welcome.
Thoughts.
I think you're right about the names. What about Mutiny Scrubs Baseball? I mean, www.msbsim.com is, as current, redundant. :)
Title: Re: Realignment?
Post by: Rum Runners on October 25, 2017, 09:04:10 AM
At Kyle's prompting, and because I just can't listen to anymore analysis of the World Series, here's my take. I like it a lot. I like the natural rivalries.
With all these big changes, it may be time to say goodbye to the old Sparrow and Roberts Leagues. Since we are adding a bunch of SCRUBS folks maybe we could have a league name that reflects their inclusion. I don't have any specific ideas as it's been a few years since I was part of SCRUBS, but I think something that referenced their league would be a nice welcome.
Thoughts.
I think you're right about the names. What about Mutiny Scrubs Baseball? I mean, www.msbsim.com is, as current, redundant. :)
Scrutiny???
Title: Re: Realignment?
Post by: thebuland on October 25, 2017, 09:07:21 AM
I didn't want to say it to rock the boat as I love the idea overall, but a team from Northern California being in the a division labled Southwest is a weird proposition. I definitely liked the original setup more, though I realized we had to shift things and it makes sense the way it's currently proposed.
How bout we call it the West or the Wild West. Pacific Northwest. Central. East.
Don't expect any southward migrations folks. I can't get any further from Brandon's Brewery (free brews?) than I already am.
Title: Re: Realignment?
Post by: Kyle on October 25, 2017, 09:13:38 AM
Would this work:
Keep the Northwest as I originally had it, but just call it "West". Rainiers, Brewers, Cutty's, Nomads, Sweets
The South: Asterisks, Koi, Bombers, Bums, Bulldogs
The Central: Dogs, Rattlers, Kraken, Landlubbers, Rum Runners
The East: Madmen, OCD, ACLs, Cache Hogs, Robots
Title: Re: Realignment?
Post by: thebuland on October 25, 2017, 09:45:26 AM
I wasn't necessarily thinking about renaming the league as a whole. I'm still very partial to Mutiny dating back to it's origins.
I had thought more about the league names. Instead of the Sparrow and Roberts, it could be at name that is associated with SCRUBS and a name associated with the Mutiny. It's easy to find the pirate theme in Mutiny but difficult to determine a theme in SCRUBS.
One thought is that the S in SCRUBS stands for society. Perhaps one league could be called the Great Society, High Society, Royal Society, The Society or something along those lines. The other could be called something Pirate related like the Golden Age, Golden Age of Piracy, Pirates of the Caribbean, or something else like that.
I'm kinda of grasping at straws here. Not being able to identify a theme for SCRUBS has me stumped.
Title: Re: Realignment?
Post by: ocd on October 25, 2017, 10:28:49 AM
Scrub & Scrum divisions maybe?
Bit of a reach, but rum is in scrum, plus scrum is also a sports term/derivation of scrimmage. Plus I think we have a few programmers/developers in our midst? Scrub also has a vaguely pirate-y tie-in since it's a synonym for swab (the deck).
Title: Re: Realignment?
Post by: thebuland on October 25, 2017, 10:41:08 AM
I can definitely imagine a scrum of pirates. It's actually a rugby term and if there was ever game I could see Pirates play, Rugby would be it. Or hangman. That's a toss up.
I like the suggestions.
Title: Re: Realignment?
Post by: thebuland on October 25, 2017, 10:43:23 AM
I'm also good with Kyle's latest divisional set up.
Keep the Northwest as I originally had it, but just call it "West". Rainiers, Brewers, Cutty's, Nomads, Sweets
The South: Asterisks, Koi, Bombers, Bums, Bulldogs
The Central: Dogs, Rattlers, Kraken, Landlubbers, Rum Runners
The East: Madmen, OCD, ACLs, Cache Hogs, Robots
Title: Re: Realignment?
Post by: Rum Runners on October 25, 2017, 10:54:46 AM
I'll second that proposal by Kyle.
Title: Re: Realignment?
Post by: profjason on October 25, 2017, 12:37:40 PM
Do we really want two of the more data driven teams in the same division in the east?!?!? I feel like the Cache Hogs have already hacked my computer for research. :)
Honestly, it doesn't matter that much, so I'm fine with this plan (or any other alternative). Teams get better, teams get worse, eventually, it will get mixed up enough. :)
Title: Re: Realignment?
Post by: Scurvy Dogs on October 25, 2017, 04:49:32 PM
Well said. We all tend to look at the right now but the goal of any competitive league would be for cyclical changes to the standings. Doesn’t always happen of course but that would be the goal
Title: Re: Realignment?
Post by: Brendtmc on October 25, 2017, 08:56:16 PM
With all these big changes, it may be time to say goodbye to the old Sparrow and Roberts Leagues. Since we are adding a bunch of SCRUBS folks maybe we could have a league name that reflects their inclusion. I don't have any specific ideas as it's been a few years since I was part of SCRUBS, but I think something that referenced their league would be a nice welcome.
The Scully!
It doesn't reference anything pirate related, but I've been a part of the Scully Division/Conference every season in SCRUBS. THE greatest announcer ever in any sport!
Title: Re: Realignment?
Post by: Brendtmc on October 25, 2017, 09:23:30 PM
On the issue itself, I'm not gong to voice much of an opinion since I don't know most the GM's/owners (what do you call them here?). I will say I was not looking forward to battling BOTH Kyle and Matt in the realignment of the realignment...
But that in itself is only because I know the two of them so well from both SCRUBS and MSB.
Title: Re: Realignment?
Post by: BrewOR on October 26, 2017, 12:38:42 AM
I didn't want to say it to rock the boat as I love the idea overall, but a team from Northern California being in the a division labled Southwest is a weird proposition. I definitely liked the original setup more, though I realized we had to shift things and it makes sense the way it's currently proposed.
How bout we call it the West or the Wild West. Pacific Northwest. Central. East.
Don't expect any southward migrations folks. I can't get any further from Brandon's Brewery (free brews?) than I already am.
Sounds like I'm going to need to save a seat for you at the bar, Matt! We're still in the process of opening, but once we're up and running you're welcome anytime...I think we might be able to spot you a pint or two.
On realignment, I really like the idea of the regional divisions
Title: Re: Realignment?
Post by: dgonser on October 26, 2017, 06:49:06 AM
Regarding website addresses, there is a long explanation for the URLs. They've only been used because they were convienent - believe it or not neither had anything to do with Mutiny when registered. One was for a board game Scott and I were working on and the other was for a horse racing simulation league (don't ask). If someone has a great idea for a catchy URL let me know...
As for realignment I'm seeing no objections to the following. I'd be okay with it as long as we don't expect to realign every time an owner moves. Changing team names, moving divisions, etc. does require a significant amount of work for Rod, David and I as these things have implications in DMB, spreadsheets, website, etc. Now is the perfect time to do it as we will need to make these types of changes for expansion.
Current proposed and damn near final realignment is: Western Division Rainiers, Brewers, Cutty's, Nomads, Sweets
Title: Re: Realignment?
Post by: dgonser on October 26, 2017, 07:28:14 AM
We need more brainstorming regarding league names.
I will add that while I absolutely love the Mutiny name and the pirate references, I have no connection with the pirate league names. I'd be up for finding something baseball related for league names. Scully and Niehaus?
Title: Re: Realignment?
Post by: Rum Runners on October 26, 2017, 07:55:43 AM
I like the broadcaster idea.
Use that as a concept for the League names, keeping Mutiny Simulation Baseball as MSB rolls off the tongue pretty well.
With the teams represented in each division, they could nominate their broadcaster, tv or radio and allow league vote to decide each.
I have no idea as far as the League names under Mutiny.
Title: Re: Realignment?
Post by: Kyle on October 26, 2017, 08:14:35 AM
I like the Scully League and the Caray League. Just as long as we don't have a Joe Buck league.
I'm confused. I thought the divisions were regional names and we were discussing League names?
I don't think anything has been decided. Just brainstorming
Title: Re: Realignment?
Post by: David Johnson on November 01, 2017, 08:13:15 AM
So the only wrench I'll throw in this is this: do we really want to move the Motor City Madmen, who lives in Hamburg, MI, which is 20 minutes from Ann Arbor and 55 minutes from Brooklyn, MI, to the East division? I know there is no ideal alignment right now (I'm looking at you Bulldogs!) as we are missing one final eastern team.
Is there an owner among the Bulldogs, Rattlers, or Rum Runners who would be comfortable moving to the east? If it was the Bulldogs, you could move the Scurvy Dogs to the new West division and rename the other one the Northwest. If it was either the Rattlers or the Rum Runners, it's an easy switch for the Madmen.
Title: Re: Realignment?
Post by: Rum Runners on November 01, 2017, 08:49:26 AM
I'm in one of those in between locations. If the goal is to keep us geographically in a region, I would prefer to stay in the central.
Regarding website addresses, there is a long explanation for the URLs. They've only been used because they were convienent - believe it or not neither had anything to do with Mutiny when registered. One was for a board game Scott and I were working on and the other was for a horse racing simulation league (don't ask). If someone has a great idea for a catchy URL let me know...
As for realignment I'm seeing no objections to the following. I'd be okay with it as long as we don't expect to realign every time an owner moves. Changing team names, moving divisions, etc. does require a significant amount of work for Rod, David and I as these things have implications in DMB, spreadsheets, website, etc. Now is the perfect time to do it as we will need to make these types of changes for expansion.
Current proposed and damn near final realignment is: Western Division Rainiers, Brewers, Cutty's, Nomads, Sweets
Though it does turn out that among Columbia, MO, Sioux Falls, SD, and New Orleans, LA, the first city is the closest (by about 110 miles) to Scottsdale, AZ where Jim lives.
Title: Re: Realignment?
Post by: David Johnson on November 02, 2017, 04:01:12 PM
Though it does turn out that among Columbia, MO, Sioux Falls, SD, and New Orleans, LA, the first city is the closest (by about 110 miles) to Scottsdale, AZ where Jim lives.
David, you have such good ideas.
It looks like this is what we're going with for realignment. I can tell you I'm not super happy about having to compete against Kyle, Rod, Jim, and Brendt, but c'est la vie.
Title: Re: Realignment?
Post by: Rum Runners on November 02, 2017, 07:21:51 PM
David,
To be honest, I looked at that on a map and didn't really have an opinion that would make much of a difference. I've been to Chicago multiple times and it's within driving distance. I've never been to Arizona, but AFL or Spring Training should be on the agenda at some point.
That is looking like one tough Western division.
Title: Re: Realignment?
Post by: Brendtmc on November 03, 2017, 04:31:05 PM
To be honest, I looked at that on a map and didn't really have an opinion that would make much of a difference. I've been to Chicago multiple times and it's within driving distance. I've never been to Arizona, but AFL or Spring Training should be on the agenda at some point.
That is looking like one tough Western division.
Yes, I am not looking forward to building from within this division.
Title: Re: Realignment?
Post by: David Johnson on November 03, 2017, 04:34:22 PM