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Stanton and Ohtani

With the recent trade, at least I believe it's going to be official I was wondering if a trade like this has ever occurred in Mutiny. A big name player with high production and salary traded. What were the results? Did each team get what they desired out of the deal? Our league has a true salary cap, where MLB has a luxury tax that has been installed.

The Japanese star, Shohei Ohtani has signed with the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim. Will he play the OF? Is he going to DH between starts? None of us really know, and how will DMB treat a player like this? This feels cleaner than it will be for fantasy baseball players. It is very likely he'll pass rookie status prior to our rookie draft, thus making him a hot commodity as a free agent next season.

I'm writing this mostly as a discussion point as we've been pretty quiet following the expansion drafts and their completion.
Brent A. Brown
Chicago Rum Runners
President of Baseball Operations

World Series Champions
CJWL - 2017 (Grinders)

LCS
NABL-AL 2018 (Louisville Bats)

Re: Stanton and Ohtani

Reply #1 –
I was holding out hope he might get to the Dodgers.  I'm still excited to see what he can do.  I recently read an article about how Fantasy Sports would handle him.  One of the solutions that was suggested was to have two Ohtani's.  The hitter and the pitcher which could be drafted separately.  The article mentioned the oddity that Ohtani could at some point be traded for Ohtani.  Can't wait for that.   :o

It certainly impacts DMB less that it would a fantasy league, but I think they will have to create a patch to deal with him.  They might create a patch that has him show up both as a hitter and pitcher in the roster profile.  Or they might create two profiles like the scenario I already mentioned.  Though you would still need to create a patch that allows you to use the offensive profile for when he pitches in a non-dh league.  Whatever the solution, it will create some funniness.

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One of the stats I will be most interested to see is Ohtani's batting average as a pitcher compared to as a dh/of.  I'm very curious to see if his pitching impacts his hitting.  It could go the other way as well.  Could teams prefer to use another dh while he pitches so he can focus solely on pitching?  It's all very interesting stuff.  I've never looked at japan league stats but I may have to.  Perhaps. there is an answer to this question already.

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On the Stanton front.  I keep reading how the park will play to Stanton's favor.  Stanton seems like the kind of player who can handle the NY media.  So that's all aces for the Yankees.  However, as a Nomads draftee (Felons at the time), Stanton has been with me for the bulk of my time in this league.  So I am keenly aware of the issues he has had with staying healthy.  Last year was the first year I can remember where he played the bulk of a full year.  That is where I wonder how this works out for the Yankees.  He's a great player, don't get me wrong, but I am skeptical how many more full seasons he has in him.  While the injuries have been more freakish in nature, I wonder if they start wearing his body down in the last half of his contract.  Combine that will the natural slowing down of the body from age and I have serious reservations about the back end of this deal. But in the near future, holy crap, the Bombers can bomb!!!

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I cannot explain how the markets for the Chicago Rum Runners (population 2.7M) is identical to the Grants Pass Brewers (population 38K), but they are.  Nor can I explain how 2017 Champion Cutthroats have the same profit margin as bottom of the league Rum Runners at $0.00, but they do.  I don't believe any of our new owners are strapped by the debt of their newly purchased franchises.  And, unless there is rule change on the way I didn't see coming, there isn't anything near the contract length of Stanton. Of course, I'm being facetious, but my point is MSB just can't replicate the reasoning behind this Stanton trade.  I can't think of a trade that checks all the boxes (simply because all the boxes don't apply to our league), but there have been some salary dumps.  The move that probably makes me feel most like this trade, where the trade really is just about moving salary rather than what comes in return, isn't a trade at all.  It was the waiving of Kershaw a few years back.

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Happy for these topics of discussion.  With the DMB season disk right around the corner, meaning the transactions freeze will soon to be lifted, this place should see a big uptick in activity.  Why not start a few days early?  Plus, the winter meetings are upon us so my baseball juices are flowing.
Matt
Mother Lode Argonauts

Re: Stanton and Ohtani

Reply #2 –
As an M's fan, I'm proposing a promotion/relegation system for MLB similar to EPL.   Ohtani in Seattle could have made the AL West interesting.

The Yankees get Stanton for basically being the Yankees.  Only the Yankees can go into complete rebuild mode for less than a season and come out looking great.
Darrell
River City Cutthroats

Re: Stanton and Ohtani

Reply #3 –
Correct me if I’m wrong but I think both Kershaw and Miggy Cabrera were waived that offseason. If it wasn’t the same offseason it was consecutive offseasons.
Rod
Scurvy Dogs

Re: Stanton and Ohtani

Reply #4 –
By the way - it is possible to insert a pitcher into your lineup. I've used pitchers like Bumgarner as a pinch-hitter before, I just haven't ever tried to put a pitcher into the starting lineup a regular batter. But it works, no issues.

So for fun I ran a 100+ game sim with Jose Fernandez at DH and leading off. On the days that he pitched the computer GM revamped my lineup since he can't pitch and be the DH. But on the days he didn't pitch he was starting at DH like he was supposed to.

Oh - and I won the series against the Asterisks 72-36. And that's even with Jose batting .157/.189/.194 from the leadoff spot :)
Rod
Scurvy Dogs

Re: Stanton and Ohtani

Reply #5 –
Quote from: dgonser – on
As an M's fan, I'm proposing a promotion/relegation system for MLB similar to EPL.   Ohtani in Seattle could have made the AL West interesting.

The Yankees get Stanton for basically being the Yankees.  Only the Yankees can go into complete rebuild mode for less than a season and come out looking great.

As I Yankees fan I am both elated and embarrassed at the same time. It’s a joke that the got Stanton for what they did, even eating 265M of the deal – Machado, Kershaw (yes, he will opt out if healthy – don’t @ me) and Harper will make that contract look tame. MLB wanted to get rid of Loria so badly they allowed another ownership group to come in and buy a team they couldn’t afford.

It's impossible to tell if the Marlins ‘attempts’ to deal Stanton to the Cardinals and Giants were BS or not. Yes, there were offers in place, but I refuse to believe, given that Stanton had a no-trade, that they didn’t know the four teams he would accept a deal to. He had all the leverage. If someone told me that the Marlins used the Giants/Cards knowing that they would have to dump him for next to nothing, but wanted to try and save face with the Marlins fan base, I might believe it. Even though it certainly didn’t play out that way.

Can’t blame the Yankees. It’s a business. Stanton named them specifically as one of the four teams, it was a no-brainer for them to not only get him, but to give up less than they should. Why should they overpay if they didn’t have to? I see so many articles/comments saying they should have given up Torres, or Frazier, or Florial, or more pitching. Yes, maybe they *should* have, well not Torres, but still. Marlins panicked, and said yes.  Problem is, it shouldn’t have come down to that, there were a number of competitors looking to buy the Marlins, yet they allow this group to come in and ruin it. I thought the Marlins may suck it up and try to deal him during the season, but were probably afraid of him getting hurt.

The trade was bad for baseball. I have heard various rumblings that the Marlins goal is to pare down the roster to 50M (or less), build it up to some extent, then sell or move the franchise. If I am a fan, I am crestfallen by that news (if true). They care nothing for the fans, the franchise, none of it. No better than Loria, and for Jeter to be a part of that as a former player? It’s his right to do so, but he could make money in so many other ways than that. Ugly all around. They had a decent offense there to build around. Really a pitcher or two away. Jose Fernandez’s death, tragic on its own, really has spun this franchise down the drain. If he is alive, doing JF16 type things, healthy, I don’t think this, and what happens to the Marlins next, doesn’t occur.

Anyway, I digress…

From a Yankees standpoint, as I said, I am excited. Though I expect there to be some normalization of stats going forward. I think Judge/Stanton will cannibalize each other’s numbers a bit, at least their RBI, maybe the biggest winners are they guys who hit behind them – Sanchez, Bird and DiDi. Still, it’s going to be an imposing lineup, and a great watch, well at least from my slanted perspective. Love that they are not close to being done. Dumping Headley’s contract puts them at about 30M under the luxury tax threshold - if only they could dump Ellsbury’s contract, too. That won’t happen, however. He has a no-trade, 20M+ salary for 3 years and doesn’t want to leave. Unless he changes his mind about leaving, and the Yanks throw in strong prospects to entice the other team to eat that money (or some of it), he is staying as the most expensive 5th OF in baseball. Still, Cashman has been on absolute roll since the Chapman trade from the Reds 2 seasons ago. Can’t wait to see what’s next.

In the end, I want a Dodgers-Yankees WS in the worst way. For one year, forget the parity, forget the feel good, low budget underdog making waves in the playoffs. Plenty of time for that some other time. I want one Clash of the Titans…. before Kershaw leaves and the Yankees spend a half a billion dollars next offseaon. :-)
Chris
Data City Cache Hogs

Re: Stanton and Ohtani

Reply #6 –
Just saw Machado roll across as yet another potential trade target for the Yankees. 
Darrell
River City Cutthroats

Re: Stanton and Ohtani

Reply #7 –
Quote from: Scurvy Dogs – on

Oh - and I won the series against the Asterisks 72-36. And that's even with Jose batting .157/.189/.194 from the leadoff spot :)

That's probably because you put Strasburg in my cleanup spot, and hit Betances right behind him!
Kyle - 2008, 2015, 2019 MSB Champion

Re: Stanton and Ohtani

Reply #8 –
No - but I did add Freeman and Murphy back to my squad. You had enough players, but I was a little thin since I had already removed all the expiring contracts from everyone’s rosters
Rod
Scurvy Dogs

Re: Stanton and Ohtani

Reply #9 –
The flaw in the sim of course is the DMB doesn’t have a fatigue rating for this. Batters have no fatigue at all (other than the limit on catching). So the sim just stuck Jose in the lineup the next day after pitching the day before without any detriment to his batting (or fielding had I put him in the OF or something vs DH). In real-life that would be less than ideal.

So the sim might have to make a patch to handle that specific scenario. But there hasn’t been a patch or a new version in years. It will be interesting to see what they do.
Rod
Scurvy Dogs
 

Re: Stanton and Ohtani

Reply #10 –
My guess is that DMB won't release a patch just for Ohtani and David will have to mortgage is home to build us a new simulation program.

Darrell
River City Cutthroats